topic Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI in Android TV

XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:11:52 GMT

I have my SKY Q connected to my Denon Amp and Amp to TV

When I had a Panasonic it would auto switch to the HDMI...but it won't on the Sony, I have to manually select the input.

Is there a setting I've missed on the TV because I've trawled and cannot find anything...this only thing I can across what the control not to power on the AMP when I switched on the TV (which was annoying for my use) so I disabled it.

Thanks

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 22:08:38 GMT

@sparkymarcopolo

The TV won’t switch to HDMI when you do what exactly? Switch on the Denon? Switch on the Sky Q when the amp is already on, or when it isn’t?

Do you have CEC enabled, where available, on all 3 devices? It’s called BraviaSync by Sony, HDMI Control by Denon, and HDMI CEC by Sky Q.

Though if you have disabled the thing that turns the amp on when you switch the TV on, you have possibly disabled BraviaSync, so you should turn that on again, disable HDMI Control on the Denon instead, and see if perhaps this works just as well at not switching the amp on automatically, but does make the TV switch to the HDMI input for the Denon when you manually switch the Denon on.

I guess you aren’t using ARC/eARC between TV and Denon, so you miss out on the amp sound when using the TV channels and apps, and anything else plugged into the TV?
Which is unusual; but I guess you have your reasons?

Panasonic TVs, by the way, have a unique feature that they detect and switch to HDMI 1 based on detecting a signal on that input, rather like SCART used to do, rather than using CEC. But everybody else uses CEC, so you won’t find any other makers’ TVs working like Panasonics do.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 07:13:19 GMT

No, the TV won't auto switch to HDMI when Denon is off (HDMI Control Disabled by Passthrough enabled) and I power SKY on, which only has HDMI Control options.

Going by the settings of how I'm reading, they're correct.

I do have Bravia Sync disabled because how I'm using it I didn't what it to power on the Amp.

Even though ARC/eARC is reporting no device, the sound from my Amp is fine even though not sync'd and whatever is on the TV is perfect for us.

I only want the AMP on when I choose, not the TV or SKY decides but if that means I have to manually switch to HDMI then so be it.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Sat, 18 Mar 2023 22:46:36 GMT

@sparkymarcopolo

It’s hard for me to figure this out, as I don’t know how you have things wired 😢

I know your TV has eARC, and I am assuming this unspecified Denon amp has eARC also; but maybe it’s an older one with only ARC?

But either way, I think you have the Denon connected to HDMI 1 on the TV, or at any rate not to HDMI 3 (or whichever the eARC-enabled port is on the TV). Or am I wrong here?

As regards the TV turning on the Denon, something you didn’t want, I think this needs both that the TV has BraviaSync enabled, and that the Denon has HDMI Control enabled.

So if you turn off either, the TV will no longer turn the Denon on.

You have achieved this by turning off BraviaSync on the TV, and leaving HDMI Control on, on the Denon.

I am surmising that if instead you leave BraviaSync turned on, and turn the Denon HDMI Control off, then the TV will still no longer turn the Denon on, but when you turn the Denon on manually, the BraviaSync will notice that this input on the TV has become live, and will switch to it, which is just what you want.

Have you tried this, and it doesn’t work for some reason? If not, please give it a try, and see if this arrangement does work for you or not. And please report back, either way!

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 08:53:04 GMT

I have the devices wired as SKY Q <> Denon AVR-X4500H <> Bravia eARC port.

When I originally setup the Bravia sync while the Denon was on (I can see it in the enabled list in the Bravia sync screen)....I decided to disable BS because I noticed when I powered on the Bravia, the Denon would come on too....which is not what I wanted.

The Denon has HDMI passthrough enabled but HDMI control disabled

I have tried re-enabling Bravia control since disabling HDMI control on the Denon made and no difference which is what I would expect because the control is sent by the device that is being powered on to signal the other devices.

My understanding of the Bravia Sync is similar, you are setting up devices to power on when you power on the Bravia.

My requirement is when I power on the SKY Q, the Bravia auto changes to the HDMI port but when I power off the SKY Q I do not want it to power off the TV

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:58:37 GMT

@sparkymarcopolo

Thanks for the clarifications, but I’m now more confused than ever. (Not your fault; possibly my faulty expectation of how things should work!)

We know your TV has eARC, but does the Denon? I’m sure it has ARC, but its spec says ‘eARC by future firmware update’. So has your Denon had such an update?

I don’t think so, because if both devices were eARC, you wouldn’t be able to stop the TV turning on the Denon, as they would just get on and do this, CEC or no CEC.

Unless you had the two devices linked with an old, pre-Ethernet, HDMI cable, that is.
Or that ARC/eARC/none is switchable on one or both devices.

So - does the Denon have eARC, or just plain ARC? And is the cable that connects it to the TV an ‘HDMI with Ethernet’ one or not? And is there any ARC switching on either device?

Assuming for the moment though, that the Denon is just ARC, and that ARC is not disabled on either device, then it needs CEC to operate, according to my understanding.

But that the TV, with BraviaSync enabled, can switch on the Denon, running without HDMI Control, contradicts my understanding. (Which I perhaps need to correct, as it may be stopping me thinking things through properly).

I can understand how then turning off the BraviaSync will then stop the Denon automatically turning on, though.

However, I would expect this to stop the ARC ever working; does it?

And if it does stop it, why have this cable connected?

Sorry to keep digging ever deeper, but please bear with me; a solution for you may yet emerge 💡

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:12:32 GMT

Thanks for your response but I think I'll stop there as what you're reporting is incorrect!

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:37:12 GMT

@sparkymarcopolo

Sure, no worries, have your problem back 😛

Maybe someone more expert than me, or with a setup closer to yours can chip in?

[Edit] One last throw of the dice….

https://www.avforums.com/threads/arc-not-working-unless-cec-is-enabled.2376805/

“Conventional ARC (not eARC) is dependant upon HDMI CEC (Control) for its functionality. No, it will not work unless both the AV receiver's and the TV's implementation of HDMI CEC is engaged. More recent Denon and Marantz AV receivers do sidestep this though and allow it to be disengaged in a roundabout way and still retain ARC capabilities. Denon and Marantz are an exception though.”

Which would explain how come the Denon can still do ARC when its CEC is switched off, probably by always looking for a signal on the line, the way your Panny used to obviate the need for CEC.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

rooobb — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:21:53 GMT

Maybe my memory is only related to older products, but these were the top features I remember on braviasync that should apply to your setup too:

. If you turn off braviasync (aka hdmicec) arc earc should not work too ( so in your setup you will still hear sound from skyq connected directly to the avr but nothing from the TV itself)

. There should be a setting in braviasync menu or audio setting defining if your preferred audio option is the avr. If set to on it will switch every time the AVr on otherwise it will set it accordingly to latest use (on if it was on and off if it was off )

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:59:47 GMT

@rooobb

While ARC requires CEC at both ends (except on Denon and its sister make Marantz, apparently, as we learn above, which explains what @sparkymarcopolo is seeing), eARC does not depend on CEC at all.

I’ve just checked this by turning SIMPLINK off on my LG GX TV playing into its companion GX soundbar; the soundbar continues to output the audio from the TV.

However, without SIMPLINK to turn the two devices on and off in concert, this setup is so useless that the devices save me from myself by forcing SIMPLINK On again 😛

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:14:36 GMT

....anyway I've tried all combinations and nothing works.

My audio is fine, when SKY Q box is on sound/video is displayed on the Bravia no issue

When I power on the Denon, audio is fine too via the Amp

....this only thing that does work is when Bravia Sync enabled but then power on/off affects everything which I suspect is because this portion uses CEC and not what I'm trying to achieve...good old Sony imo!

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

rooobb — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:44:38 GMT

@royabrown2 I do not have an earc HT so cannot try it, but from Sony specification it seems that it should be on regardless if arc or earc. From what he wrote he seems to be using the Denon only for skyq so it doesn't matter what he does on the TV since it is connected directly to the AVr.

@sparkymarcopolo have you found the option to automatically revert to AVr in your TV?

It should be like this https://helpguide.sony.net/tv/eusltn1/v1/en-003/01-03-09_02.html#:~:text=Audio%20system%20prioritization,allows%20you%20to%20control%20it.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:20:56 GMT

@rooobb I am not using the `Denon for Sky Q, it's connected directly to the Denon as the unit has HDMI passthrough.

I'm not sure what you're getting at about the AVr reverting, I'm not trying to do anything with the Denon

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

rooobb — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:50:35 GMT

@sparkymarcopolo I know my English is not perfect , but If you read the article linked it shows how you can tell the TV to not power on your Denon anytime you switch it on. If that option is still present in your OLED TV.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:28:47 GMT

@rooobb neither is mine and it's meant to be my first language.

I did take a look but the option no longer prompts you to choose whether it will power the AVR device on ot not, just displays the devices it's compatible with and what to check.

I've just noticed something else, unless I have Bravia Sync enabled, audio is not passed to the Denon from the TV....so it's a no win situation.

I wish I'd never touched Sony again, apart from the picture, the menu system and how the options work compared to my Panasonic are first rate crap!

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

rooobb — Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:09:22 GMT

Your basic option anyway is to add an optical cable from the TV and keep bravia sync off so you'll have all that you ask for without being depressed . Unfortunately I cannot check anything else for you not having the same TV model.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Mon, 20 Mar 2023 07:08:31 GMT

It is what it is....a great picture but that's where the positive feedback halts.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:17:00 GMT

You can try to change the TV Power on behaviour and see if that'll help.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

royabrown2 — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:31:48 GMT

@Anonymous

I think what @sparkymarcopolo wants is to turn on his TV and not have the receiver that is connected to the TV’s eARC HDMI port turn on.

Which is entirely contrary to how (e)ARC is supposed to work.

The setting you describe anyway does not address that; it addresses only which screen the TV shows at power on, and I don’t think there is any screen that would ignore ARC.

@sparkymarcopolo has achieved his aim by turning off BraviaSync (CEC) on the TV; (e)ARC is dependent on the sending device having CEC turned on.

(Normally, it is dependent on the receiving device having it turned on as well, but Denon have a workaround for this, so it doesn’t need it.)

However, as he has found, turning off BraviaSync stops the Sony keeping up its end of the ARC bargain, so when he does turn on the receiver manually, the Sony sends no audio over the ARC.

Irregardless of ARC though, @sparkymarcopolo needs BraviaSync on so the Sony can automatically switch to the receiver when its output is detected.

So ARC is out, and audio from the Sony to the Denon needs to follow the suggestion of @rooobb to use the Optical Out. Which, as I surmise that the ARC triggering would still be operative, would also mean taking the HDMI cable out of the eARC port on the Sony, and connecting it via one of the other ports.

However, @rooobb‘s solution will require that the receiver doesn’t turn on when the optical signal arrives (if it does, it certainly won’t be CEC causing it) or we are back to square one.

And ideally that the Sony can control the volume of the optical signal - my 2015 Sony Android TV could, so it’s doable, as long as the more recent sets still support this.

However, the quid pro quo here would likely be that @sparkymarcopolo has to switch to this input manually.

And also the Sky box, unless he turned on HDMI Control on the Denon. Which might also be needed to switch the Sony automatically to the input with the receiver on it.

But which still shouldn’t cause the receiver to turn on automatically from the Optical signal, as CEC is an HDMI thing only.

Which only leaves HDMI Passthrough on the Denon to be set correctly.

The Denon manual seems to be saying that Passthrough would let the signal from the Sky box go through to the TV even with the Denon in standby, and wouldn’t take the Denon out of standby.

Which is fine if it’s what @sparkymarcopolo wants - that even the Sky box should not fire up the Denon Audio unless he wants it to. But he may need to turn Passthrough Off if he wants the Sky box to automatically start the Denon playing the audio.

I think the above will meet @sparkymarcopolo‘s requirements, though it will unavoidably require manual switching to play the TV’s audio over the Denon.

It may well be that the best solution is to go back to the original configuration, switch BraviaSync back on, and maybe HDMI control on the Denon as well, and resign himself to just one manual action, which is to switch the Denon back to standby when the Sony TV is switched on.

As I can’t figure a setup without at least one manual step, and this is actually the simplest.

Re: XR-55A84K switching to HDMI

sparkymarcopolo — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 13:07:31 GMT

That's pretty much it to a tee @royabrown2

Everything I've found out and tested all scenarios but I'm sticking with Bravia sync off. When I power on SKY, I manually switch to HDMI on the TV and since I rarely use surround sound, I can enable sync as and when.